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JJ Ramberg

JJ Ramberg is the anchor of “Your Business,” MSNBC’s weekly show on small business. In addition to her extensive television reporting experience, Ramberg has a background as an entrepreneur and co-founded GoodSearch.com. She has an MBA from Stanford Business School.



Why the BBB deserves a FFF

Posted: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:10 PM by Eve Tahmincioglu
Filed Under: , , , ,

Why does everyone insist on making my life more difficult?

I can't just pop a DVD into the player and have it start playing a movie without watching the previews. People don't respond to my e-mails with a message history anymore. And lately, Twitter keeps saying it's "over capacity" and won't let me tweet.

Now the Better Business Bureau (BBB) is getting in on the make-my-life-more-difficult act.

The agency that tracks the behavior of businesses nationally is sending us all back to school with its decision to give out letter grades.

It used to be so simple -- "unsatisfactory" or "satisfactory" were the only ratings firms got.

But nooo, that was too simple. Now we have to have grades from A+ to F.

Before, if you were a business owner all you had to do was get yourself off the unsatisfactory list and you'd be okay with customers. These days you could get a "D" and then make a good case for yourself with the business bureau and get upgraded to a "C" -- but that doesn't sound that good either, right?

And for consumers, too, it was so clear-cut before. Either a firm was satisfactory or not. If it was unsatisfactory, you didn't deal with the company. Now you have to decide if a "C" grade is bad, or not so bad.

In a press release put out this week, the BBB said it was adopting the new system "to help consumers more easily and quickly identify and compare the reliability of businesses."

I don't know about you, but all this seems way more complicated to me.

The BBB will base the letter grades on a 16-point formula:

1. The type of business and its business model
2. How long the business has been operating
3. Whether the business has appropriate competency licensing
4. Total volume of complaints filed against the business
5. The number of unanswered complaints
6. The number of unresolved complaints
7. The number of serious complaints
8. An overall complaint analysis
9. The number of complaints with delayed resolution
10. Government actions against the business
11. Any advertising issues found by BBB
12. The extent of background information available to BBB for evaluation
13. The extent to which BBB is able to develop a clear understanding of the business
14. Whether the business has honored any mediation/arbitration commitments
15. Whether the business has attained BBB Accredited Business status
16. Whether the business has had its BBB Accreditation revoked

Then the agency's number crunchers take all this information and come up with a grade.

If an entrepreneur doesn't like his or her grade, BBB spokesman Steve Cox stresses the bureau is "more than happy to talk to any business that has any issue with the grading."

"Maybe it's a matter of you fix one thing and improve your grade, but it may not be," he said.

The key thing for consumers, he added, is to look for whether a company has BBB accreditation. To get that, the firm needs a "B" or higher.

I asked Cox if a consumer should do business with a "C" graded firm. His answer: "Maybe."

Jeez, that doesn't help.

What the heck does it mean to get a "C"?

"That's an average grade, just like it was in elementary school," he explained.

I don't know about you, but the last place I want to go back to is elementary school.

What do you all think? Is this a good move for the BBB, or should we be giving the agency an FFF?

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Comments

It's about time these BBB ratings actually will mean something!

Gary, Poway CA (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 3:47 PM)

What a whiner. If you can't easily interpret an A-F scale, you should go back to elementary school. I would want to know if my insurance company is an A+ or a C-, satisfactory doesn't cut it!

Billy Rubin, Rexburg, Idaho (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:11 PM)

The world has just become to politicized for most. If the BBB were to get a FFF, than how would George W. Mussolini and his side-kick friendly fire rate?

Steve Swenson (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:25 PM)

The BBB in SO Cal gives out ratings of an F for businesses without any complaints????  What is that about?

Bob Orange County California (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:40 PM)

The BBB is a joke, they are a shill for the companies that are members.  I have had more problems with BBB companies than not.  I don't even bother any more. And this won't help.

Birdsall, San Diego, CA (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:51 PM)

The BBB rating system is a amorphous and unintelligible as the different methods used by the 3 credit bureaus!!

Cool Zero, Bend, Oregon (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:59 PM)

And to upgrade to a better grade, how much will it cost? As a small business owner, I don't know how many calls I've rec'd from the BBB to become a "member business" to their agency. The BBB is a scam along the lines of the hundreds of "Who's Who" books that are published. It had it's use at one point in time, but is no longer of value.

Tom, Pittsburgh, PA (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:02 PM)

Should be "an FFF" NOT "a FFF."

There is no way to spin that into anything other than what it is -- a mistake.

Sammy, Boston, MA (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:22 PM)

Unfortunately this seems like it is giving companies an opportunity to "work the system".  KISS is always a good system.  Keep It Simple Stupid.  This system is giving ambiguity and interpitation that will very between each person who interpets the results.  So that bar that used to be satisfactory has just gotten a little more grey.

Paul, Redmond, WA (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:23 PM)

I think that like any org they are only in it for their job securities. I discussed what they do for a business in the face of an absurd complaint by an individual? I did not feel like they have the capacity or structure to review complaints..it is not a part of their charter they are just there to report activity and I will bet the largest firms that spend the most money with them get the best support. They are way over rated and should go the way of any "no value added entity"claiming to protect consumers...what about the rights of the small business?

Michael , Brookings OR (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:28 PM)

When was the last time you called the BBB for a rating on a business.  Frankly, I chose my businesses by word-of-mouth recommendations, not a letter grade!  How ridiculous.  F to you BBB!

Auzziegirl (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:52 PM)

As a small business owner I gave up on the BBB years ago.  I never felt I got any value from their rating and got tired of the annual phone call threatening the demise of my business if I did not join by paying the substantial annual fee.  Maybe others have found them useful but they have been completely worthless to me.

AB OR (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:04 PM)

The BBB's rating system is as strange as the Credit Bureaus!

Lawrence McAdams (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:07 PM)

The BBB is a joke. Just an organization thats out for your money. As a consumer they didn't help me at all. Just closed the file on a complaint I made and noted that the case had been resolved. As a business person they did nothing to help me with a claim that had been filed against me. Worthless and a waste of money.

Duane Hurd (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:21 PM)

Oh I forgot  FFF for the BBB but hang in there you'll be just like Ebay. Put the screws to the business and pamper the customer.

Duane Hurd (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:28 PM)

BBB is useless, they only protect the businesses that pay for memebership.  I won a legal case against a BBB member company that they dismissed as resolved. I contacted them several times, they told me to contact the business again, and again. No help at all to the consumer, just get a lawyer!

Michael. Baltimore, MD (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:56 PM)

The BBB is neither a Bureau NOR an agency at referred to in this article. The BBB is a company that sells a product. The product is putting in a good word for you if you pay them. I've owned, and still own several businesses and I don't bother with this shakedown outfit. Still I do over $10 million a year in business without them, go figure, if you are enough of a brown nose with your customers you will do just fine, you don't need the BBB just the BN.

Tommy J (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:30 PM)

BBB is just a Franchise.  Want to buy one, you can!
And then you can be "subjective", right - and rate my business! Yeah.  Call them up and try to get a rating over the phone. You can't. Too much liability on their part.....can't you see behind this Letter Grade crap!  Trying to protect THEMSELVES vs Consumers from lawsuits by companies that are rated "unsatisfactory" and this grade stuff sorta softens that "blow" and makes it harder for them to be sued. What leg does a C or B- have to stand on ( above average or average ain't realy bad is it? Ya Honor!).  Go ahead.  Buy the franchise!  Or you can go to the meat market and get real Baloney!

Tom (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:30 PM)

I guess I don't understand what the BBB does for the consumer. I compained about an EBay Scam from KATSOFT in Florida that cost me $360 and got nowhere, either by explanation or satisfaction that the company is crooked or any avenue of retribution I had.  So, what DO they do?

maxxine kurtzbein McMinnville oregon (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:00 PM)

Here Here! Very well said:
"The BBB is a joke, they are a shill for the companies that are members."

The BBB is not, I repeat NOT a consumer protection agency. At best the BBB is a big business special interest, national lobbyist group.

Floyd Eakle Oklahoma City, OK (Sent Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:11 PM)

The BBB is a scam.  It protects it's paying members and not the consumer.  I have had a couple instances where BBB members had a litany of pending lawsuits, complaints filed with the police and they still had satifactory ratings.  When I pressed BBB for an explanation they had none.  They do not track the companies performance but rely on the PAYING MEMBER to supply the information.  Go to any online bulletin board and you will see first hand the disgust with BBB performance in protecting the consumer.

Jack, West Chester, PA (Sent Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:34 AM)

There are some useful insights in these comments,but also a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding.  I am president of the BBB serving Louisville, Southern Indiana and Western Kentucky and know first-hand how dedicated most BBB staffers are. BBBs work hard at being impartial and fair to businesses and consumers.  We hold BBB Accredited businesses ("members" in the old terminology)to standards for fairness and reliability.  BBB will not accredit (and revokes accreditation of) businesses that fail to meet standards.  Without cost to the public, we handle and work to resolve complaints and inquiries regarding any business.  No two complaints are "created equal." Complaints filed with and handled by BBB range from trivial to very serious.  Answer any BBB's phones for an hour and you'd be amazed by the number of scams that we save people (and businesses, too) from falling into.  I'm not impartial when it comes to judging the BBB, but in my judgment, the BBB performs vital work serving ethical businesses and customers.  We make mistakes, but no organization is more capable or better prepared than the BBB to rate businesses for reliability and trustworthiness.  BBB will do it as well as it can be done, and we're constantly striving to do it better!  

Charlie Mattingly (Sent Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:25 AM)

I think that the ratings system is helpful because they rate all businesses, not just members. Think about that. If they were only favoring members, why would they take the time and resources to handle complaints and collect information on all non-member businesses? My take away from this is that the BBB provides many FREE services to businesses and consumers, regardless of their "affiliation" status. Thousands of members and consumers come to them each day expecting their problems to be fixed - Sure, they may not help in all complaints/disputes but atleast they try. Atleast there is an organization out there that holds businesses responsible for answering their complaints, becoming licensed, etc.  

Sue Shell, Seattle, Washington (Sent Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:37 AM)

A class action law suit aganist the bbb on the behalf of all the businesses that get any bad rating by this self serving ,threating , hearsaying, media propaganda spreading group. Send this kind of shot over their
heads  and you'll see just how well the " bad behaveing business " can
twist even this into a win for them

Cia spook San diego, Ca (Sent Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:18 PM)

The BBB misrepresents itself as a government agency.  It should have been sued into bankruptcy for deceptive trade practices long ago.

Frank, Dallas, TX (Sent Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:56 PM)

I am a small business owner that felt the pressure to join last year... Now I feel I can't afford the HIGH fee and WILL NOT renew... Hope I don't get an F

Perhaps this recession will force more business to NOT renew, and perhaps the BBB will then too fall like many of us small business's.... Do they then get a F also?  

Bill WA (Sent Friday, January 09, 2009 12:49 AM)

The BBB is supposed to be a non profit but there fees are insane.I refuse to pay for a non profit to rate my business. IMHO no one uses the BBB anymore

Robert Cummings,Little Egg Harbor,NJ (Sent Friday, January 09, 2009 9:43 AM)

When my brand new roof leaked less than 30 days after installation, and the roofer said all the water and mold damage to my attic and to the ceiling in my living room were "tough luck" for me, I called the BBB.  They opened a "negotiation", and suddenly the company was willing to talk to me.  They sent out a repair guy.  This would NEVER have happened without the BBB's help - unless I wanted to hire a lawyer - which would have cost as much as making the repairs myself.  I will now only hire companies who are members of the BBB.  The companies that pay to join the BBB care about their ratings and that is the benefit to the consumer.    

Sue (Sent Friday, January 09, 2009 9:51 AM)

We had an issue with the BBB and a, how shall I put it nicely, "flakey" customer (who used to work for us). We did everything to satisfy her within the original contract, yet nothing was good enough (I was the PM on the job). Here comes the BBB, threatening us with their usual published "bad rating". Lo and behold, we found out if we joined the BBB, we would get a satisfactory rating. Well, our company had their attorney write a response to them and we never heard another word from either party. What a ripoof and scam. If you look up the US Chamber of Commerce, you will find out that they absolutely deplore the BBB. I will not have a thing to do with them, ever. They are just a ripoff to the consumer as it only takes a payment to join and get a good rating.

Jeff, Palm Springs, CA (Sent Friday, January 09, 2009 11:03 AM)

The BBB doesn't misrepresent anything.  Just because there is a widely held miscoception that the BBB is a government organization doesn't make it so.  The BBB is just like everything else.  It's a tool; it doesn't matter if YOU use it or it sits in your toolbox because that doesn't change its purpose or usefullness.

Steffanie Hale (Sent Friday, January 09, 2009 11:48 AM)

The BBB doesn't misrepresent anything.  Just because there is a widely held miscoception that the BBB is a government organization doesn't make it so.  The BBB is just like everything else.  It's a tool; it doesn't matter if YOU use it or it sits in your toolbox because that doesn't change its purpose or usefullness.

Steffanie Knightstown, IN (Sent Friday, January 09, 2009 11:49 AM)

How much are they going ding my company?  Never a complaint, in business over 100 years, etc..  But will not give them business information, due to fact they insist on asking for confidential information over the phone.  They refuse to send any kind of form for us to fill out, PHONE ONLY!  Excuse me, isn't that one of the things that you stress never to do??  How do I know you are who you say you are??

Brian, IN (Sent Friday, January 09, 2009 12:41 PM)

I actually like the grading system and I think the author was just having a really bad day. Take a chill pill.

Jessica, Boston, MA (Sent Friday, January 09, 2009 5:27 PM)

All BBB has ever stood for is Better Buy OUR Business ratings or we will say we know nothing about you even if you have been in business for 40 years. They will not even admit that you have rejected their advertising sales overtures.

Leon J. Tousignant, Saunderstown, RI 02874 (Sent Friday, January 09, 2009 5:40 PM)

I just had a cal from the BBB told me I qualified for their best ratings and woud only cost me a little over $800.00 year just for them to say so.  We have been in business 70 years without their help find it odd that this is the first time they have contacted us for their "help"

Ed Rutherford NJ (Sent Friday, January 09, 2009 7:28 PM)

As a 10 year menber in So. Cal.  The BBB has been the most helpful agency in my business. There are so many scams in California, I would be out of business without it's help in the type of work I do.
Yes, we have an A rating, but without it I would not even be considered!  Thanks BBB

Dan Monte Perris Ca (Sent Friday, January 09, 2009 8:46 PM)

Being a small business owner in a service oriented industry, I welcome the A - F grading system.  The real problem is too many businesses offer just average or worse customer service because of the old satisfactory or dis satisfactory ratings system.  Why try for excellence when you just have to do a little bit to get a satisfactory.  Maybe our auto industry should go to a harsher rating system and we might then get better quality vehicles.

Michael Shannon, Charleston, SC (Sent Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:22 PM)

BBB has always been pushy and unreliable.  I am not surprised they are trying new things to just complicate things.  Keep it simple.  Eve is right on here.  The BBB will always take the side of the consumer but many times the consumer is not right.  Finally threre is an avenue for the contractor to post bout poor consumers.  Business Beware evens the scales of controversy between consumers and contractors.  Maybe this will help to even the one sided playing field out there.

Bob, FL (Sent Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:01 PM)

Actually, I like the spread.  This essentually means that the BBB is more likely to give a real appraisal.  Before with just unsatisfactory and satisfactory they were too easy on a business, and hard on the consumer.  
I've filed several complaints over the years regarding bait and switch practices.  Each time I was told by the BBB that they don't address pricing strategies.  The last problem was with a local Chrysler dealership.  They gave me an over the phone quote on replacement of a 3" host on my water pump.  1 hour of work = 89.00 + material (12.00) cost.  Brought it in and the revised bill was 300.00.  I refused and did it myself.  Took me 45min and of course 12.00 in parts.  I could have done it in 20minutes IF I had known the best way.  

This was a classic case of bait and switch, and the BBB refused to take the complaint.

Jerry S, Woodstock, Ga (Sent Sunday, January 11, 2009 10:22 AM)

When we opened our tiny store 2 yrs ago, we were actually threatened by the local BBB with some complaints that had been supposedly filed against us. We   had not even opened for business yet. It turned out to be a bizarre way to frighten us into joining.
Our Chamber of Commerce membership is another story... all we got for our $500/year was a bunch of telemarketers pretending to be from the Chamber. Average was 15 calls per day. When we did not renew, the calls finally stopped.
We have found much better support thru 1 on 1 networking with our fellow small businesses. No need for membership fees!

peggy, kitty hawk, nc (Sent Sunday, January 11, 2009 4:32 PM)

BBB is aweful!!!!

What good is a agency that is no better than some of the companies it claims to report on? The BBB is a sham on the levels of Madoff - only legitimated by their appearance in the community. People THINK the BBB is legitimate. What good is a rating that you can purchase?

I dont need to pay $800/yr to have some company tell me that my business is good and give me sticker for my window letting people know that someone else thinks I run a good business...what a sham!  The BBB is a sham and should be put out of business. They dont to anything and live on making others lives tough

Joe Blow Job (Sent Sunday, January 11, 2009 5:55 PM)

BBB SUCKS - Plain and simple. A BIG sham if there ever was one. They do nothing for business then take their money and everyone thinks the BBB is a joke.

Their new "rating" system is aweful and anyone that gets a low rating should sue their assess off...

Jow Blow Job, Cincinnati, Ohio (Sent Sunday, January 11, 2009 5:58 PM)

http://www.complaintsboard.com/?search=bbb

Go here and read about the bbb

O'Brine (Sent Sunday, January 11, 2009 6:09 PM)

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/001/ripoff0001343.htm

More info on the BBB

O'Brine (Sent Sunday, January 11, 2009 6:28 PM)

Sounds to me like a lot of the posters can't qualify for a descent BBB rating on their business. Most of these negative folks wouldn't know customer service if it hit them in the head. SO if you can't qualify as an acredited business with a good rating what do you do? You try and bring the system down. Get a clue it ain't about you its about the consumer - the people you are supposed to be in business to serve. Quit complaining and get busy fixing your customer service issues and you will get a better rating. Now, sit down, shut up, and get back to work.

Tim, San Diego (Sent Monday, January 12, 2009 10:36 AM)

I was badgered into joining the BBB, by the BBB.  I let it run out, my business continues to grow.  The BBB lied to get me in, and lied about its value-it has none.

Joe, St. Petersburg, Florida (Sent Monday, January 12, 2009 10:51 PM)

If you are a non-paying Better Business Bureau member, a single complaint can plummet scores. With just one complaint each, Ferrari Maserati of Beverly Hills, Porsche of Downtown L.A., Dolce and Gabbana, and Prada were downgraded to CC's and D's. At the same time, SavePlus, a wholesale retailer of discount clothes (which also has one complaint on record), enjoys the AAA rating. (Coincidently, SavePlus is a paying BBB member).

for full article, see http://www.mediapost.com/publications/index.cfm?fa=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=98174

dan, cleveland, oh (Sent Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:08 AM)

If a company supplies the required information then there grade is raised even if they are not a member. If you can't provide the information needed to make a consumer feel comfortable with putting her trust and money into your company, do you really expect her to use you? I know I wouldn't. I have worked for a BBB and the phones are constantly ringing with consumer's asking about companies. Just because you don't use it does it mean that it is not useful. How about the hundreds of calls BBBs around the nation get day after day asking about work at home programs. Not one single legitamit program? Could you imagine the uproar from people who have cashed the falty checks and now are thousands of dollars in debt trying to be a mystery shopper. If you want a good rating then talk to the BBB and make sure they have all your stuff covered. Even if you have old unanswered complaints they will let you try to resolve them just to get your ratings up even if your not a member! so dont blame the bbb for giving you a bad rating if you have one you deserve it. oh and the comment on not having you listed even if you have been open for 40 years well that is a good thing almost. thats means you dont have complaint and enough people havent called about you to form a rating.

Jane Doe, Louisiana (Sent Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:01 PM)

BBB sucks. A much better place to go if you have a consumer complaint is ripoffreport.com About as good as going to court. Good luck.

Amy (Sent Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:49 PM)

I joined the BBB as a small business because I think the public deserves a third party intermediation service so that they can have another datapoint about who to trust. Bear in mind that studies show that trust in a business and it's product and services is the number 1 buyer criteria today. Isn't this exactly what U/L does for consumer products from a safety perspective. Neither U/L or BBB is a government agency but both serve the same type of function. So does a public auditing firm. Clearly the BBB evaluates more from a record of complaints or lack thereof than do the supposedly rigorous investigative techniques of certification agencies or audit firms-but happily it doesn't charge as much money for it's review!  

Yes I agree with the poster that says, "trust word of mouth", as long as you consider the source. I think I bought some stocks based on a friend's recommendation once....but then again maybe I should have sought out more unbiased information from an objective agency.  

As for objectivity-I don't think you can buy the BBB. You can perhaps convince them over time that you are a quality company by demonstrating a good record. My young company went through all the trouble of applying for their Torch awards and received a trophy for our efforts. But they won't even post a mention of our award on their web site and we still ended up with a lower letter grade than our competitors who didn't show up. Sure we demonstrated ethical behavior in a BBB competition but our competitors have been around for nearly 100 years and we are 2 years old. I think that's pretty hard evidence of track record taking precedence over a good sales pitch or a purchased and active membership!  Add to that, I am happy there is a letter grade because it gives BBB more credibility to differentiate between 2 great companies-like mine and my 100 year old competitor!

A+ to BBB for trying to reinvigorate their role as a oracle of trust for business today. Anything to better help consumers understand and act on the old phrase "Caveat Emptor" and avoid the tort lawyers would be a good thing! Anyone who thinks that fear of lawsuits drives ethical behavior should have his/her head examined! (But don't forget to verify the litigation record and malpractice insurance limits of the head doctor before you go...)

In the real world, businesspeople like me will do what will build our repuation and brand. Our behavior is where we start and customer word of mouth and 3rd party endorsement such as BBB is a great way for us to further spread that message to a public that is seeking to hear that message.

David, Milwaukee (Sent Wednesday, January 14, 2009 11:11 PM)



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